Thursday, 8 February 2007

Refutation of the group Tolu e Islam (Founded by GA Pervez) and any Koranites/Quranites groups

Refutation of the group Tolu e Islam (Founded by GA Pervez) and any Koranites/ Quranites group

"Say, If you love Allah then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you, your sins. Allah is oft-forgiving and merciful." 3.38 Follow who? Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) That should be enough for you to follow him and believe in him, if you need more read on.

This group does not believe in the validity of hadith as part of the sacred law, they claim that the Quran is enough for them to follow. The founder GA Pervez challenged the scholars claiming that the hadith itself was not valid for a source of sacred law. He claimed that the hadith has varying degrees of unreliability because of a particular verse, we will go through each time that they claimed something and prove that it does not mean what it literally says or how they understand it.

Proof for the Validity of all the compulsory prayers, to reject these all leads to disbelief, be careful! Asr “Guard your prayers and the middle prayer.” (2.238)
Isha - Fajr -Zhur and Magrib “So glorify Allah when you enter the night and when you enter the morning. Unto him be praise in the Heavens and the Earth and the suns decline and at noon.” (30.17-18) Allah also says, “Worship at fixed times has been enjoined on the believers.” (4.103)
The article is here

I would like to go through every instance that the word Hadith comes in the Quran.
Like any word in Arabic it has many meanings from the Hans Wehr dictionary, (spelt with ha, daal, ya and Tha), speech, chat, conversation, discussion, interview, prattle, gossip, report, account, tale, narrative and the last one is Prophetic tradition.

We also need to understand something the context because if that is not understood then the whole sentence can be is misunderstood. This I feel is the area that has been misunderstood by this group.

The following the Quranic reference and the meaning of the word hadith in the Ayat.

39.23 the best of speech

12.111 Here is refers to the Story of Yusuf (upon him peace) not being invented

45.6 This refers to discourse

31.6 this one also refers to the discourse of men

77.50 this refers to the Quran

52.34 It refers to the Quran again

They also claim that the Quranic ayah 17.24 say that you should only call with the Quran. How they understand it is that only the Quran should be used a source for sacred law.

Lets look at different translations of the same line.

Pickhalls translation
"And We place upon their hearts veils lest they should understand it, and in their ears a deafness; and when thou makest mention of thy Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn their backs in aversion."

Mushin Khan
"And We have put coverings over their hearts lest, they should understand it (the Quran), and in their ears deafness. And when you make mention of your Lord Alone (La ilaha ill-Allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah) Islamic Monotheism ()) in the Quran, they turn on their backs, fleeing in extreme dislikeness."

Yusuf Ali
"And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth). "

M Shakir
"And We have placed coverings on their hearts and a heaviness in their ears lest they understand it, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn their backs in aversion."

Your Lord is one, not use the Quran alone as they state it is.

Does the Quran wish us to follow the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)? Yes.

This should be enough evidence. “(O Muhammad, to mankind): if ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, merciful.” Ahl-Imran 3, Verse 31

There are nineteen times that obedience of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is stated in the Quran by Allah Subhanu wa ta’ala

1) “The messenger believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him from his Lord and (so do) believers. Each one believeth in Allah and his angels and his scriptures and his messengers - We make no distinction between any of his messengers - and they say: We hear, and we obey. (Grant us) Thy forgiveness, our Lord. Unto Thee is the journeying.” Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #285)

2) “Say: obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in his guidance).” Ahl Al-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #32)

3) “These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Whoso obeyeth Allah and his messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow, where such will dwell for ever. That will be the great success.” An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #13)

4) “and whoso disobeyeth Allah and his messenger and transgresseth his limits, He will make him enter Fire, where he will dwell for ever; his will be a shameful doom.” An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #14)

5) “They ask thee (O Muhammad) of the spoils of war. Say: The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger, so keep your duty to Allah, and adjust the matter of your difference, and obey Allah and his messenger, if ye are (true) believers.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #1)

6) “O ye who believe! obey Allah and his messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #20)

7) “O ye who believe! obey Allah, and the messenger when He calleth you to that which quickeneth you, and know that Allah cometh in between the man and his own heart, and that He it is unto Whom ye will be gathered.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #24)

8) “and obey Allah and his messenger, and dispute not one with another lest ye falter and your strength depart from you; but be steadfast! Lo! Allah is with the steadfast.” Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #46)

9) “and the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and they establish worship and they pay the poor-due, and they obey Allah and his messenger. As for these, Allah will have mercy on them. Lo! Allah is Mighty, Wise.” At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #71)

10) “The saying of (all true) believers when they appeal unto Allah and his messenger to judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. and such are the successful.” An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #51)

11) “He who obeyeth Allah and his messenger, and feareth Allah, and keepeth duty (unto Him): such indeed are the victorious.” An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #52)

12) “and stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and his messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #33)

13) “On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they say: Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and had obeyed his messenger!” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #66)

14) “He will adjust your works for you and will forgive you your sins. Whosoever obeyeth Allah and his messenger, he verily hath gained a signal victory.” Al-Ahzab, Chapter #33, Verse #71)

15) “There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). and whoso obeyeth Allah and his messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.” Al-Fath, Chapter #48, Verse #17)

16) “The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and his messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” Al-Hujraat, Chapter #49, Verse #14)

17) “Fear ye to offer alms before your conference? Then, when ye do it not and Allah hath forgiven you, establish worship and pay the poor-due and obey Allah and his messenger. and Allah is Aware of what ye do.” Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #13)

18) “Obey Allah and obey his messenger; but if ye turn away, then the duty of Our messenger is only to convey (the message) plainly.” At-Taghabun, Chapter #64, Verse #12)

19) “Mine is) but conveyance (of the Truth) from Allah, and his messages; and whoso disobeyeth Allah and his messenger, lo! his is fire of hell, wherein such dwell for ever.” Al-Jinn, Chapter #72, Verse #23)

All these are Quranic quotes.

Sincere advice, do not play games with your afterlife. If a person is lazy and does not want to do something just admit that you're lazy. Do not make things up and then try to justify your own opinion by twisting the words of the Quran.

We only know Allah Subhanu wa ta'ala thru his Messengers deny the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and you deny the message. Then on the day of judgement when you are begging for mercy then you'll get the message.

You still have time; get your house into order. Follow a madhab and an Aqida school and save yourself from incorrect views.

34.28 "We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind but most of know not."

1. Hans wehr dictionary Arabic – English ed. JM Cowan 1976 p.161






Digital Dervish said...


I am actually working on a refutation against Parwez too.

I have seen this movement from the inside for several years. Actually, they don't reject hadith all together, only the 'ones which contradict the Quran'. Of course, this is nonsense, because with correct, qualified ijtihad (something Parwez didn't have) of the ulema, there is no contradiction between the authentic hadith and the Quran.

They also don't beleive in miracles, and are in many ways a Mutazilite movement. They end up denying things like the PRophet Isa (AS) not having a biological father, Miraj, significance of Laylatul Qadr, coming of the Mahdi etc.

Of course, Mr. Parwez didn't beleive in Tasawwuf either.

Although this movement has more or less died out, it might get a revival because real ulema are so scarce.

-Digital Dervish

Anonymous said...

Salam alikum

Jakallah Khair Dervish.

Anonymous said...

before refuting others would u like to explain sahih muslim, book 8,chapter 28 ,hadith num 3424: suckling for young adult of non mehrim woman in order to be able to make them mehrims ,,,,, do u guys really approve this for ur mothers, sisters, wives and daughters ?

Anonymous said...

Owner here.

To answer your question is easy the hadith related to one of the Khassyat of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), one of the things he was given specifically. So this is an exception not the rule. In all other cases breast milk if drunk after two years of age has no effect on the drinker.

The email from Sunnipath explains everything cleary, so have a look.

If you get a question like this search sunnipath or ask a scholar and if I can help you find other answer please let me know.

Anonymous said...

To doudt the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon be upon him) is not to believe in him and disbelief in him is leaving Islam, be careful.

Anonymous said...

So the refutation stands and if I can refute this group so easily there can't be much in them!!

Quranite said...

No one refuted anything here. All that was done here was to confirm previous biases. Here's the truth:
1. The Hadeeth are Rumor. Not even isnaad can get beyond that fact. They are not reliable for knowing what our prophet did and said. The Quran is.
2. The prophet would not have said anything outside of the Quran or in clarification of the Quran because the Quran clarifies itself. Outside of the Quran the prophet had nothing to add or give to us. His don was the book God gave him and his unwaivering faith in it.
3. The Quran says that there has to be 4 eyewitnesses to any ONE rumor. That means 4 witnesses per narration and for every narrator. The hadeeth don't stand up to that test.
4.The Sunnah of our last prophet IS NOT in the Hadeeth. It is in the Quran through what God told our prophet to say and do.

If Quranites seem so easy to defeat it's because you misunderstood our points. Discard the Rumor (hadeeth) and take up what the prophet preached to the people and spoke from. The Quran.


Quranite said...

Please be honest, courageous and most of all Quran and please post my comments. Thank you and God bless.

Anonymous said...

Salam alikum Anwar

The name Anwar is plural for the word Nur which means lights. Its strange that people who see have light yet cannot see, amazing.

Yet again, you have failed to read the article.

1. If you read the Quran then the Quran tells you that to follow the Quran you must understand it through the Sunna of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. The Hadith are the words, actions or his confirmation.

2. If you deny the isnad of the hadith and ridicule its method then you are actually denying the same method that the Quran was narrated by. That would be foolish and more than that its an act of disbelief.

3. There are about 3000 hadith that have more than 3 narrators confirming the same information. The hadith about the tree moaning because he did not lean against it and make khutba is narrated by 70 companions and then onto a similar number of companions.

4. The Hadith narrators were checked firstly for their truthfulness, peity, practice of Islam, actions in private and public, his memory etc, before taking any narration from him.

5. The Quran informs us hundred times to obey the prophet and you can see in the following link.

6. If you are reading the same book then you have to be surprised because you are not following the book that you claim to follow!!

7. A woman complained to Ibn Masud on an issue he said it was confirmed in the Quran, she said that she read it and did not find reference to it. He gave the following Quranic verse; "Whatever the Messenger brings you, adopt it; whatever he forbids you, refrain." 59:7


"O' you who believe! Obey Allah and his Messenger, and do not turn away from him." 8.20

So all this is confirmation dear Anwar that if I can refute you guys and destroy the group by Allahs leave then there must be nothing there.

Be warned that now you have read this you have no excuse, after this.

Dear brother I wish you could see what I could then it would be so easy to see things.

Sectarian refutations

Anonymous said...

Please see this video on how a sceptic on Hadith methodology became convinced of the truthful nature of the narrators.

I am happy that you are posting because this meanings that it did effect you. Hopefully it will make you think...

Sectarian refutations

Anonymous said...

on the verses of obeying God and his messenger.

now this is just an idea so GOD obviously knows better than i do but what if they were refering to an event at the time of muhammad where he needed support from the community like a war etc. maybe GOD meant this in the lifetime of the prophet only.

a good example is the verse that said not to annoy the prophet now i doubt that anyone could still be held to that command because muhammad isnt alive anymore

but allahu alam

Anonymous said...

I am frankly amazed by this last comment.

Would anyone say something 17 times and for it not to mean anything? For it just to be for a certian time? Anyone who believes this is clearly astray.

The Quran is a book for all times, all places and all peoples. It is known as the "Speech of Allah."

So if someone comes up today and says that these verses are not relevant. Then he has neither studied texts nor studied with good scholars. That person has an opinion and he holds that opinion over everything else.

This is not permissible if that person claims to be a Muslim. As sources of scared law are four: 1. Quran, 2. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), 3. The companions and 4. The scholarly consensus.

If someone holds to his opinion in spite of revealed texts then his is astray.

Why, because he is preferring his own opinion above the Quran and the Sunna. Persisting on this will lead to disbelief, is it that simple.

As the criteria of disbelief is not just someone who disbelieves in Allah/God. It is someone who rejects the Messenger as well (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

So the Quran is relevant yesterday as it will be tomorrow as it is today.

Also there are various narrations stating that the Prophets (upon them peace) are alive in their graves.

As the following evidences show:

Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) narrates:

"On the night of Isra, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) passed by the grave of Sayyiduna Musa (Allah bless him), and found him praying in his grave" (Recorded by Imam Muslim in his Sahih, and others).

Anas ibn Malik narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wsallam) said:

"The Prophets are alive in their graves performing Salat" (Recorded by al-Bayhaqi in his 'Hayat al-Anbiya' and Abu Ya'la in his Musnad).

Aws ibn Aws narrates the Messenger of Allah as saying:

"Send salutations in abundance on me on Friday, as your sending salutations are presented to me. The Companions inquired: "How is it possible that you receive our salutations when your body will have been decayed? The Messenger of Allah said: "Verily Allah has made forbidden on the earth that it eats the body of the Prophets" (Recorded by Abu Dawud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Darami and others, and authenticated by many, such as Ibn al-Qayyim).

Abu Hurairah (Allah be pleased with him) Narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Peace and blessing be upon him) said:

"None of you greets me except that Allah returns my soul on me until I return his greeting" (Musnad Ahmad, 2/527 and Abu Dawud, 1/279).

Or you can see the rest of the article here.

Sec Ref

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Anonymous said...

Good point, though sometimes it's hard to arrive to definite conclusions

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